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[Music]

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hello everybody welcome back to the

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channel it is sunday i hope everyone's

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having a great day

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i'm looking forward to this conversation

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a couple of good friends of mine who we

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actually hung out last night over on

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priscilla's channel had a great

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conversation there for uap book club

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uh and they're here again tonight so

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let's not waste any more time and let's

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bring in

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mr sean rash sean how you doing mate

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pretty good thanks for having me sir hey

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my pleasure man and uh mr j christopher

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king jay thank you for joining me man

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hey it's great to be here great to see

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you vinnie and great to see you sean

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good to see you oh oh that was a that

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it's like i called the cops i didn't

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think they'd be there that quick

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i was just saying we had a great time

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over on uh book club last night that was

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really good man

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yeah yeah that was fun i love uh i love

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the the group of people

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and i'm looking forward to switching up

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the books a bit too by different authors

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um

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i i just love that because in the end it

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seems like we always wind up just

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talking about bigger questions which i

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really appreciate

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yeah yeah and for anyone that isn't

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aware we were discussing um trinity the

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best kept secret by jacques valle and

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paul harris

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great conversation i recommend going

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going to check it out over on the

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quantum witch cafe and then next month

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we're all reading above top secret by

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timothy good which i've never read i

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ordered my copy today so

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yeah that should be fun

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yeah absolutely i'm looking forward to

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that um his i

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really enjoyed his book uh earth and

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alien enterprise which i think may have

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been his last book before retiring he's

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still alive but he's uh by all accounts

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in in poor health

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um and is kind of retired from the field

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etc so but um amazing writer really

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enjoy it so i uh i look forward to buff

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top secret for sure it'll be fun

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excellent excellent um the first thing i

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really wanted to talk about is the

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importance of

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research um now whether this be a case

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or an error

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um sean you know this is your field

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you're you're up there with the best of

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them so

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can we just talk about how important it

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is

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to actually research rather than maybe

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maybe you see something somewhere and

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you

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believe it or some people might just

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believe what they read or see

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so yeah let's talk about the importance

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of you know

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looking deeper into things

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yeah well to me i i guess i could take

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it back to when i first started getting

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into this stuff and when i had my own

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experience it didn't take me too long to

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look at the field and see it you know

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basically

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you know see that there's

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all different directions

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in places that this community goes as

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far as theory speculation

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and and everything um and for me to be

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able to make any sense out of that or

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get truth of it just from you know the

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characters in there or or solid

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statements of i know this or i know that

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um i wouldn't be able to feel good about

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it myself you know

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um so the only way i really knew to

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start digging for for my own truth and

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really at that time it was to make sure

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i wasn't crazy you know that

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there really is a phenomenon there

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really is odd stuff that happens and and

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it's possible and it's not just me so

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um i couldn't take someone's word for it

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you know um so i had to go find it and

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that was just finding documents uh

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government documents

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um

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finding out that

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you know the situation of somewhat of a

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cover-up and

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uh is real

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and um you know people a lot smarter

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than i have had

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um encounters you know and it's happened

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many times over and over again and not

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just from reading someone's book or an

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article or a video but actually reading

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the document as it is before

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you know somebody takes it out of there

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and writes their own story with it you

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know whether to make it

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more fantastic than it is or less

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you know so i think it's important to

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figure things out for yourself you know

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so you feel good about what you know you

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know otherwise you're relying on

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um people that may have

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some sort of prerogative whatever it is

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you know

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yeah well said what about you jay

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yeah i mean the the importance of

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research is is absolutely critical and

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you know it it kind of

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what's a what's a way to say this you

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know it separates

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you know in older generations we'd say

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it separates the men from the boys you

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know what i mean it and i think that

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there's really something to that you

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know that and the adults from the

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children and some in some ways

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you know

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in

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a

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however with the experiencer group of

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course um my current research is largely

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in conversation with other experiencers

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and comparing nodes

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on a daily basis you know hearing

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new accounts

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every day

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it's in it's wild how many data points

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are correlating

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over

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so many different people that don't know

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each other that have

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strange shared

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data points from their histories that

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that

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you know at a certain point i was

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reading actually the communion letters

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earlier today uh whitley strieber's book

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that he and his wife put together

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from letters that they got from

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experiencers after communion was

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published all right and the book's

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largely out of print but you can get a

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kindle copy of it these days and it's a

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it's an amazing resource because

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you're looking at people that

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that

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weren't on the internet at the time

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this was largely compiled starting in

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1986

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and there weren't many resources for

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these these these cases right there

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weren't many resources for where to go

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and in reading these letters people are

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totally unguarded about the high

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strangeness effects and how

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how wild things can get you know as we

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know and

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and it's amazing because i was reading

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those and i was i was correlating them

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to people in the experiencer group and

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thinking like oh my god you know that's

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that's like chrissy or that's like this

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person or whatever you know what i mean

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and and seeing that is incredibly

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it's amazing it's amazing seeing seeing

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those kinds of correlations happen so

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uh for me i think that there's a lot of

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there's a lot of work to be done with

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experiencers in terms of just building

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the community and have in opening these

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doors and normalizing that kind of

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conversation

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and that's critically important and

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being able to bring that into the public

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is incredibly important and at the same

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time one of the wonderful side effects

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of doing this work is that everybody

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that's involved in it gets to do their

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own version of

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kind of boots on the ground research in

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a way and being able to talk to other

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people about their cases

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yeah i suppose it must be important when

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you're speaking to an experiencer to

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to have good information you know so i

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guess the research side of things is

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valid in that in that respect just as it

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is in many other aspects and areas so

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yeah it must be important so just for

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anybody that i mean we've i feel like

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we've seen but

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yeah i i just wanted to add like

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you know

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it's unfortunate that the public i guess

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is for the most part so far behind of uh

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where the reality of the situation is

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right now i mean the fact that there is

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a phenomenon

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really you know to someone who who puts

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in the time uh to figure things out uh

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you know it's real there's a phenomenon

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right so we should really as a

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collective

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be at the

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at

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the next chapter of where jay is where

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he's taking in experiencer accounts and

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and the you know the interactions had so

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he can get farther down the hole of of

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what this actually is versus if it

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exists you know

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like it's like take a car for instance

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it's like we're still trying to figure

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out if we can make a car and have it

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work versus

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you know we know that it works now we're

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trying to make really nice ones you know

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um

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so it's

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it

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that's so i really appreciate where

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jay's at because

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you know he's done with that he's like

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yeah i know okay it's real it's here so

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let's let's move on let's move past that

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and try to try to dig deeper in this

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mystery and figure out what's actually

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happening and i'm getting there myself

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to be frank

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no absolutely and and i mean a lot of

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your research sean is looking at

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government documents and stuff which

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i might class as kind of a nuts and

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bolts

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side of things whereas jay's is is the

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experience of thing and now sean you're

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looking at both sides how do you combine

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the two

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you know because that

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we hear about people

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this person does nuts and bolts and and

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and it's all separated but

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it really needs to come together i think

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to push the subject forward so how do we

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go about that

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uh for me personally

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you know i i don't know that

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i'm the person that would have the

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answer for that necessarily but i think

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um you know bringing the the two worlds

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together would just

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if

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i put my best foot forward it would just

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take a sense of

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being humble with each side of it and

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and not

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assuming anything on either side of it

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you know

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um

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but i feel like the majority of at least

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nuts and bolts you know when we say that

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even though jay's made this point before

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these things don't have nuts or bulbs

284
00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:37,680
yeah okay um you're right

285
00:10:41,509 --> 00:10:39,680
but uh um

286
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:41,519
you know i feel like uh what a lot of

287
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:43,600
people in that crowd so to speak and

288
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,480
this is an assumption um and not going

289
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:48,560
to be valid for everybody but

290
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:50,320
they're still trying to figure out if

291
00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:52,959
there's a reality to this or not you

292
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:55,600
know versus um you know more on the

293
00:10:59,269 --> 00:10:57,200
experience or side they're past they're

294
00:11:01,430 --> 00:10:59,279
beyond that you know and they're now

295
00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:01,440
trying to figure out what the entities

296
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:03,519
are or what's happening

297
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:07,040
um you know with the experiences so

298
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:08,399
i feel like

299
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:09,680
but there's

300
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,839
you know responsibility on both parts if

301
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:13,920
if we want there to be some sort of

302
00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:15,519
coming together and on the the

303
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:17,680
experiencer side there has to be some

304
00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:19,600
sort of uh meet

305
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:22,079
you know meet you where you're at and

306
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:24,800
have some understanding and empathy

307
00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:27,680
for someone uh not being able to go

308
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:30,160
farther in their studies on such a

309
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:34,160
incredibly complicated and um

310
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,120
you know

311
00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:37,120
basically just drastic thing to believe

312
00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:39,519
and move forward with you know it's not

313
00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,360
a normal thing

314
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:43,760
you know so having that empathy and

315
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,360
meeting people where they're at and the

316
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:47,680
nuts and bolts side to maybe

317
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:49,760
take a step farther out of the circle

318
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:50,880
and and

319
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,000
just you know test themselves on on

320
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:56,720
what they really want to do with this

321
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,360
i completely agree i think i mean it's

322
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:01,200
absolutely crucial meeting people where

323
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:04,160
they're at and i i think about that

324
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:06,560
myself on a on a pretty daily basis

325
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:07,760
because

326
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:10,480
often in the experiencer group and just

327
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,360
in general on twitter and in the online

328
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,519
communities and things like that people

329
00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,279
have become aware of the work that we're

330
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:19,680
doing you know and i'm i'm sure this is

331
00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:21,680
true for both of you as well sometimes

332
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,600
just given the field in general that

333
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:25,360
you'll get dms and stuff like that from

334
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:27,120
people that are you know having an

335
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:28,800
emergency they're having a crisis

336
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,639
they're they're trying to come to grips

337
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:32,560
with with some of these situations that

338
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:35,600
they're having or just becoming aware of

339
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,800
the data

340
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,360
and and you know

341
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:41,519
being suddenly in kind of a castle made

342
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:43,120
of sand you know

343
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:45,120
and being able to

344
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:47,600
being able to meet people where they are

345
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:48,560
whether

346
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:49,760
it's

347
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:54,160
somebody that's in the nuts and bolts

348
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:56,240
vein whether it's somebody like jeff

349
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:57,360
kreipel

350
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:58,720
or you know

351
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:01,120
jacques or somebody like that like being

352
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:02,880
able to try to

353
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:05,519
have different levels of dialogue at in

354
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:08,320
in certain ways is incredibly important

355
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:11,360
in terms of being able to smooth

356
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:13,440
kind of smooth out the field in a way

357
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:14,800
and try to

358
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:16,480
bring about the kind of productive

359
00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:17,839
dialogue that we really want to be

360
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:18,800
having

361
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:20,639
and as far as like how do we how do we

362
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:22,160
put all this together meeting people

363
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,240
where they are and also there's there's

364
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,160
also practical considerations like what

365
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:28,320
the work that gary nolan's doing for

366
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:31,839
example in terms of being you know he's

367
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:35,279
outed himself finally as being at long

368
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:36,880
the long rumored

369
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:39,839
um pseudonym one of the pseudonyms in in

370
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:42,160
diana posalka's american cosmic which

371
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:44,399
was a very brave act for

372
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:47,600
you know a guy that has his own lab at

373
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,320
stanford university at an ivy you know

374
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:52,320
at an ivy college you know

375
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:55,519
um that's amazing right and the work

376
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:57,040
that he's been doing in terms of

377
00:14:02,470 --> 00:13:59,760
material studies and analysis and

378
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:02,480
there are private aspects to

379
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:05,519
to things that he's been doing that

380
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:08,320
um you know have been long rumored and

381
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:09,680
can't really

382
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,120
detail about them but if some of that

383
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:15,120
stuff comes out in the days ahead and

384
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:17,279
months ahead it'd be absolutely amazing

385
00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:19,040
in terms of marrying

386
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:21,760
material science and or quote unquote

387
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:23,920
nuts and bolts and the realities of

388
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:26,320
experiencers which i look forward to for

389
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:27,279
sure

390
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,880
no i completely agree we've been quite

391
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:30,480
spoiled recently with the amount of

392
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:33,440
appearances that gary nolan's given but

393
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,360
um i was very conscious that he recently

394
00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:37,199
said he's actually taken a step back for

395
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:39,120
the fear of just constantly repeating

396
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,959
himself which is completely

397
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:42,480
understandable and i've been lucky

398
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,160
enough to get him onto a panel coming up

399
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:46,320
towards the end of may on my channel

400
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:47,199
um

401
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,720
so hopefully you know like you said if

402
00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:50,639
we can get get some more information out

403
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,639
of him that doesn't feel like it's just

404
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:54,639
a repetitive like vein from what he's

405
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,560
been saying for so long then that'd be

406
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:58,240
great and and when he's surrounded by

407
00:15:02,310 --> 00:15:00,079
other scientists maybe the conversation

408
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,320
will go that way rather than one-on-one

409
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,839
with someone like myself asking him

410
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,600
questions you know maybe that we'll get

411
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,959
something different

412
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:09,440
we can hope

413
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:10,720
absolutely i look forward to that

414
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,279
conversation a lot he's a really he's

415
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:14,880
such a brilliant guy

416
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:17,279
and uh he's got a great sense of humor

417
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,360
he's thoughtful i i look forward to that

418
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:21,920
quite a bit everyone hope that we

419
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:24,800
as a community can learn to to treat

420
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,240
people like that when they come along

421
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:28,480
with it with a certain amount of respect

422
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,600
um because it's exactly what we need you

423
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:33,120
know people

424
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:35,759
like gary nolan someone as brilliant as

425
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,600
him avilob

426
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:40,480
we need those people in this field and

427
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,360
you know

428
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:43,519
at some time sometimes our actions you

429
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:46,399
know can kind of repel uh those sort of

430
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:49,519
people um and we have to you know try to

431
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:52,320
remember that um it's long overdue so if

432
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:55,040
we can just keep our [\h__\h] together

433
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:56,240
yeah

434
00:16:01,350 --> 00:15:59,519
people are held in such high regard by a

435
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,360
lot of other people

436
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:03,360
a lot of expectation is put on them that

437
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,880
they need to constantly give us

438
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:06,800
something or deliver something to us

439
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:08,480
which you know is not the case because

440
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,639
they owe us absolutely nothing and i

441
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:12,720
think that gets forgotten sometimes you

442
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,759
know

443
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:15,920
yeah we can do we can all do something

444
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:17,920
right like you don't have to sit and

445
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:18,880
wait

446
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:21,839
like uh i'm i'm an impatient person so

447
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:24,240
if i was sitting here and waiting

448
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:25,680
i guess i would

449
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:28,000
kind of not be very good on twitter

450
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:30,240
either or with these people you know

451
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:32,240
like because that's not my type of

452
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:33,680
personality so

453
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:36,240
you know what helps me is keeping busy

454
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:39,279
myself like searching for my own truth

455
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:41,120
whether it be documents or old

456
00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:42,720
publications or

457
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:43,759
you know

458
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,639
experiencer accounts or whatever it is

459
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:48,399
because there's so much one thing i've

460
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:49,279
learned

461
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:52,240
about research is there is so

462
00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:53,360
much

463
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:55,040
information

464
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:57,120
available online

465
00:17:03,030 --> 00:16:59,360
whether it be government-wise not even

466
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:03,040
our own government like australia canada

467
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:04,880
other governments the uk

468
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:07,839
um and then there are so many

469
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,360
old uh like bulletins and you know

470
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:13,199
newspapers and

471
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:15,199
books there is so

472
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,079
much

473
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:18,480
that you can you know try to draw from

474
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:19,839
and learn from

475
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,480
and um if you really want to know what's

476
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:24,400
going on if you really

477
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,199
want to know what the truth is there is

478
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:29,520
no reason for you not to put some of

479
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,840
that onus on yourself and start getting

480
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:33,919
into that stuff and when you do you'll

481
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:35,840
find yourself almost

482
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:37,520
um you know

483
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,720
too busy to worry about if someone's

484
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,240
coming out with that video this week or

485
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:43,760
not you know

486
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:46,880
yeah i i agree i'm reminded of i went to

487
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,240
art school and then i went to film

488
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,240
school and i'm reminded of one of the

489
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:52,000
most annoying teachers that i've ever

490
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,240
had he was he was one of my foundational

491
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:57,039
teachers in art school and uh his name

492
00:18:01,430 --> 00:17:59,440
was brooke and he had this quote that he

493
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,440
said almost every day and he said if

494
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:03,200
you're bored you're boring

495
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,120
right and

496
00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:07,760
and i kind of i would tend to agree with

497
00:18:10,710 --> 00:18:09,360
that within the field of ufology because

498
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,720
it's like if you're

499
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,480
if you feel like there's not enough

500
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:14,960
content coming at it at you like i don't

501
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,559
know what to tell you i don't know what

502
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,480
to tell you there's more podcasts

503
00:18:22,789 --> 00:18:20,400
there's more books there's more research

504
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:22,799
to be done than any one particular

505
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,600
person can do and so if on any one

506
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:27,360
particular day you feel like it's slow

507
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:30,080
news day well guess what you know there

508
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,280
is an an incredible body of literature

509
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:36,240
and an incredible body of free research

510
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:38,559
available online you know you start

511
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:39,520
digging

512
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:41,440
i mean just look up if you get bored one

513
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:44,080
day look up keith keith basterfield he's

514
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:46,240
he's a really under-known australian

515
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:48,799
researcher um that is an absolute

516
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:51,679
treasure you know he he's been quietly

517
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:54,240
doing his blog for many years and he has

518
00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:57,440
so much good research he published um

519
00:19:02,470 --> 00:18:59,840
those foia dirts the other day it's a

520
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:02,480
doss after it's the other day 36 out of

521
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:05,360
38 as i recall and you know that's

522
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:08,480
amazing work or people like isaac coy

523
00:19:12,870 --> 00:19:10,720
you know sean was mentioning old ufology

524
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:12,880
journals and that guy has been he has

525
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:15,520
kind of like a a very quiet website that

526
00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:19,120
has thousands and thousands of old ufo

527
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,960
magazines that he's lovingly you know

528
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:25,200
transfer it into pdf form there's so

529
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,120
much out there that that people can

530
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:29,919
entertain themselves with and

531
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,919
it's one of the beauties of our field in

532
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:33,600
general that people are so passionate

533
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:35,200
about it that that

534
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,559
that we have these rich resources

535
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,559
absolutely i mean myself i

536
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:42,160
i think some people

537
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:43,679
i've spoken to say well i'm just

538
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,039
overwhelmed because i don't even know

539
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,200
where to start i mean you've just given

540
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,679
some fine examples but for me personally

541
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,520
quite a few years ago when i was just

542
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,039
you know i wasn't doing any of this but

543
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:55,360
i was looking at documents

544
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:57,679
it's overwhelming until you just open

545
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:59,679
some files and before you know it all

546
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:00,799
you're thinking about is what you're

547
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:02,640
reading and what's next and what can i

548
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:04,559
look at next it's not like

549
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,960
it's not scary once you start digging in

550
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:08,960
it becomes addictive you know i spent

551
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,120
many a long night in front of a screen

552
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,039
just going through documents it's fun

553
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,360
it's exhilarating

554
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:17,280
i think you get the nail on the head

555
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:19,760
like it's uh it can seem daunting until

556
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:22,080
you start reading that first file

557
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:23,280
and

558
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,760
then by the time it's done you're like i

559
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,679
gotta find another one

560
00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:31,760
you know that either

561
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,360
and then you'll start to see little

562
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,360
things here or there that point you in a

563
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:37,840
certain direction of uh you know

564
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:40,480
overarching knowledge over the topic and

565
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:42,080
i and i don't mean knowing what any of

566
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,280
this is just that it is you know

567
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:47,600
and once you're there like you're you're

568
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:49,919
off you know and there's so many

569
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,799
like

570
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:52,720
when i first started

571
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:53,679
i wish

572
00:20:58,870 --> 00:20:56,480
somebody could have told me go here

573
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,880
and here are the documents and this is

574
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,120
how you can find them you know i wish

575
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,360
somebody was available like that

576
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:05,520
i tried to find somebody like that that

577
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:07,919
would uh help me in that way but it was

578
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:10,799
just no dice you know so

579
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:12,559
for the record i'm here for anybody else

580
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:14,320
that's looking for a way to do that you

581
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,600
know

582
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,679
going to for your reading rooms

583
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:19,520
utilizing the archives

584
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,480
um

585
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,200
you know i i don't want to have

586
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:25,200
figured that out just for myself you

587
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,320
know because

588
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:28,159
hey there's people out there that'll do

589
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:30,000
a much better job if they just have the

590
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:31,679
resources and want to

591
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:32,720
and

592
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:33,600
um

593
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:35,280
you know the more the more people that

594
00:21:39,029 --> 00:21:37,600
realize that there's uh easy access like

595
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:39,039
that

596
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:40,480
to just more brains will have on it the

597
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,960
better off we'll be so yeah and you've

598
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,400
got your own website now with a lot of

599
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,080
the documents there so people don't even

600
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,840
have to go and find them in all these

601
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,520
separate you know government websites

602
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:51,200
and reading rooms that you mentioned so

603
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:52,720
maybe that's a good place for people to

604
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:56,080
start yeah for sure yeah

605
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,880
of course go to my website

606
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,480
um i think i think i've added all

607
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:01,919
possible links for both of you guys in

608
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:04,159
the description below so uh

609
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:05,679
yeah if i haven't

610
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:08,799
i think my bad but i think um now

611
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:10,400
jay one thing i really wanted to talk

612
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:11,840
with you about was your recent

613
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,400
appearance um at rice university for the

614
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:16,400
archives of the impossible

615
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:17,360
i mean

616
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:18,880
great event

617
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:20,960
fantastic that you were a part of it

618
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:24,000
amazing speakers some of my favorites

619
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:26,799
how did that all come about for you

620
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,080
that was absolutely amazing and it

621
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,840
partially happened because

622
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:34,000
of uh a conversation that we had on

623
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:36,320
witness citizen with leslie kane

624
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:38,880
and leslie was on our on our show on

625
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:41,679
sean's show that i weekly co-host right

626
00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:44,080
um back in what was it january i think

627
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:45,679
she was on the show and

628
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:48,960
and she just kind of lightly encouraged

629
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:50,880
us us to come down

630
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,320
you know she was and it was very offhand

631
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:57,039
um but when somebody like that tells you

632
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,720
you should probably do something it's

633
00:23:01,270 --> 00:23:00,559
kind of important to listen to them you

634
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:01,280
know

635
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:02,159
and so

636
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:03,760
i after the show i was sitting there and

637
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:05,840
i was thinking maybe i should do that is

638
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:07,840
that something i should do and by the

639
00:23:12,230 --> 00:23:10,480
next day i was i already know jeff

640
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:12,240
kreipel and

641
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:14,000
um and so

642
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:17,039
by the next day i i emailed jeff and

643
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:20,320
and said oh you know is a room etc and

644
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:23,440
it turned out that you know there were

645
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,559
in the

646
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:26,640
it was a small event because of coveted

647
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:28,000
restrictions and things like that they

648
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:30,320
had to keep it to about 120 people that

649
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:32,080
were allowed to show up

650
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,960
and

651
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,559
many many more people were live

652
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:36,720
streaming it online they have a really

653
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:39,440
great av department down there at rice

654
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:40,480
um

655
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:42,880
but oh my gosh like being down there it

656
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:45,760
was like ufology heaven you know and a

657
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:48,080
lot of us were staying in the same hotel

658
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:49,679
and so

659
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:52,799
you know walking down to get coffee and

660
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:54,559
jacques vallee has already been up for

661
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:57,279
hours having having one-on-one meetings

662
00:24:02,230 --> 00:23:59,360
with people down there you know

663
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,240
you know bumping into michael masters or

664
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:04,720
leslie or whoever or diana in the

665
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:06,159
elevator

666
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:07,120
you know

667
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:09,440
on your way to the gym or whatever it

668
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,320
was it was it was unbelievable it felt

669
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:14,400
it felt like um

670
00:24:19,590 --> 00:24:16,720
a strange ufology heaven i have to say

671
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:19,600
or paranormal heaven in a in an odd way

672
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:21,840
and i'm so glad you have been a part of

673
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:24,320
it you know there the

674
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:26,480
me getting on to one of the panels

675
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:28,720
actually happened while i was already in

676
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:29,760
houston

677
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:30,960
uh my

678
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:31,679
my

679
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,360
co-founder of the experiencer group

680
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:35,760
stewart davis was going to be on a panel

681
00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:38,240
and he had to back out because of a

682
00:24:42,710 --> 00:24:40,720
family emergency and so

683
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:42,720
at the last minute uh

684
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:44,400
jeff himself

685
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:47,200
emailed me i was already down there uh

686
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,200
and so i woke up in the hotel the first

687
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:51,760
morning and i have this email from from

688
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,000
jeff that's like hey man uh can you do

689
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:56,559
me a favor and be on this panel and

690
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:00,400
of course it's a huge huge honor

691
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,200
and also of course

692
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,440
incredibly anxiety producing right

693
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:07,200
because i it was good that it felt like

694
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:09,200
ufology heaven or paranormal heaven

695
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:10,240
because

696
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,600
i needed that feeling to kind of

697
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:16,159
outweigh the amount of anxiety that it

698
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:18,799
produces to be sitting there and and

699
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:20,799
feeling like you're talking

700
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:22,880
in any kind of intelligible way and

701
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:24,240
you're looking out in the audience and

702
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,679
there's jacques and there's jeff and

703
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:27,200
there's leslie and there's diana and

704
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:29,120
there's whitley and all the other

705
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,279
wonderful people that are there you know

706
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:34,000
um but absolutely amazing event and

707
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:35,039
they're

708
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:41,279
possibly at least two more that

709
00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:42,960
maybe of every other year they're

710
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,080
thinking about having similar

711
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,840
conferences down there i don't think

712
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:46,880
that that's

713
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:48,559
you know it'll it'll take some time

714
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:49,440
before

715
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:53,520
that really comes into play um but but

716
00:25:58,870 --> 00:25:55,520
uh i'm looking forward to more events

717
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:58,880
with with those folks for sure

718
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:00,720
yeah that sounds incredible and just in

719
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,400
case anybody isn't aware what are the

720
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,480
archives of the impossible

721
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:06,720
oh yeah okay so

722
00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:09,600
um jeff [\h__\h] uh who

723
00:26:14,789 --> 00:26:12,880
who is the uh i think i believe he's the

724
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:14,799
associate dean or he's the temporary

725
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:17,440
dean of humanities for rice university

726
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:21,200
uh down in houston texas uh he also runs

727
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:22,480
he's a

728
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:30,000
author and he runs what's called the gem

729
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:32,640
program and it's one of the rare

730
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:33,600
kind of

731
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:34,799
tucked away

732
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:37,520
places where people study

733
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:40,640
the paranormal and esotericism within

734
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:45,120
academia and he's built this amazing

735
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,400
wing

736
00:26:49,990 --> 00:26:48,640
and he's and it's becoming kind of more

737
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:50,000
powerful

738
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,200
and more amazing by the year um but he

739
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:55,440
he established

740
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:56,960
rice university has an incredible

741
00:27:01,350 --> 00:26:59,200
library and archive system and they're

742
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,360
very very well endowed they're very well

743
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:03,200
funded and so

744
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:05,679
he was talking with jacques valley years

745
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,400
ago

746
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:08,400
and jacques valet had no idea where he

747
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:10,000
was going to put his archive and jeff

748
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:11,520
said well you know let me make some

749
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:13,760
calls and i'll see what i can do

750
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:14,799
and

751
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:17,520
he jeff was able to kind of

752
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:20,000
figure out a way so that they could they

753
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:23,679
could allocate some funds so that this

754
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:26,240
important you know important documents

755
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:27,760
important

756
00:27:34,149 --> 00:27:32,000
paperwork uh diaries files from people

757
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:34,159
associated with ufology people

758
00:27:38,389 --> 00:27:36,080
associated with mediumship people

759
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:38,399
associated with remote viewing all sorts

760
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:39,840
of folks

761
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:42,880
can have their their important documents

762
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:47,760
down there and it's and it's a way of of

763
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:50,000
um what we're all doing the research

764
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,760
what that we're all doing so some of

765
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,520
whitley strieber's paperwork is going to

766
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,600
be there leslie kane has done an

767
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:57,760
incredible job in terms of getting the

768
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,000
narcap files there and and uh the files

769
00:28:06,389 --> 00:28:04,000
of a guy named stuart alexander who's a

770
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:06,399
very successful physical medium working

771
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,600
in the uk

772
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:09,679
uh jacques villa's files are there and

773
00:28:13,669 --> 00:28:11,919
they're embargoed for i think another

774
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:13,679
seven years or so

775
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,360
but i i and i talked to i met with the

776
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,000
guy that actually um

777
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:22,480
that organized that that is the one

778
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:24,320
person or one of the very few people

779
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:26,159
that actually knows what's in jacques

780
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:28,960
archive and ah man i spent so much time

781
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:30,399
trying to figure out different ways to

782
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:32,960
be like so uh you know

783
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:36,080
trying to get and his mouth was shut but

784
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,880
um he's a great guy his name's tim um

785
00:28:42,149 --> 00:28:40,000
and

786
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:42,159
he does his own great work in jeff's

787
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:43,840
program so this is an incredible

788
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,240
resource it's an incredible program in

789
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:48,640
general and you know for some people

790
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:50,880
within our field jeff is an under known

791
00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:53,120
figure but in the wider

792
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:55,360
academic world he's kind of a towering

793
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:58,399
giant for for this kind of material and

794
00:29:01,909 --> 00:28:59,760
he's

795
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:01,919
basically like a huge thought leader

796
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,679
when it when it comes to

797
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:05,840
um

798
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:08,960
academian states and in legitimizing the

799
00:29:12,149 --> 00:29:09,919
field

800
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:12,159
for sure it's just so good to see big

801
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,640
institutions on the academia side

802
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:17,039
being so open to hosting these kind of

803
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:18,720
things as well you know

804
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:20,000
something we've been crying out for i

805
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:21,840
think for quite some time

806
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,760
so yeah really good to see

807
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:25,200
uh sean

808
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:26,720
wake up

809
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,799
let me brother

810
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,559
one thing i really was listening yeah

811
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:32,159
it's fascinating isn't it and i hope

812
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,840
like like jay said i hope we get to see

813
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:35,440
more events coming out of rice over

814
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,240
there over the years yeah i've just

815
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:39,600
compounded on what

816
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,399
company you said vinnie like um the fact

817
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,080
that they're willing to take a risk in

818
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:46,799
it you know rice university and have a

819
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:49,120
an event like that hopefully you know

820
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,039
that catches on because there's so many

821
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,200
universities and there's so many more

822
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:55,600
people uh that have done investigations

823
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:58,880
and have files and archives just like uh

824
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,159
you know

825
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,360
james mcdonald at uh arizona arizona you

826
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:05,520
know he's got boxes

827
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:08,000
of files there like that could be an

828
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:11,200
event you know where they open his files

829
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:12,960
and and do something there you know so

830
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,120
there's opportunities uh all over the

831
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:17,600
place so hopefully uh that courageous

832
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,840
step that was taken by rice spawns more

833
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:21,440
events just like that

834
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:22,880
and what would you do to get your hands

835
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,350
i i'd be almost you know i'd be like

836
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:33,840
circling back around i'd be overwhelmed

837
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:35,760
but then uh you know i'd probably start

838
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,159
reading one and be like oh my gosh

839
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,880
yeah i wonder what's in there you know

840
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:42,480
um i

841
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:45,039
i know that he has files probably from

842
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:48,080
all over the world

843
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,799
and

844
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:50,799
they're definitely a couple areas i'd be

845
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,200
very interested in learning more about

846
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:55,679
i'm getting mental pictures of sean in

847
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:58,159
like total jewel thief garb you know

848
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:00,640
what i mean like dodging lasers

849
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:03,039
getting into the fondren library finding

850
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:05,760
this stuff i love it

851
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:07,200
knowing me i'd get there and then i'll

852
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:12,310
that's true no i bet i mean there'd be

853
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:13,440
all sorts like you said different

854
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:15,120
countries but i imagine there's a lot of

855
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,640
documents that he would have used when

856
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:18,399
writing all of his books over the years

857
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:20,080
as well i mean

858
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:22,640
what a treasure trove absolute gems in

859
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:24,000
there

860
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:26,240
well we can wait seven years and

861
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:28,159
see what happens then i suppose

862
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:30,480
um let's switch it up a bit i wanted to

863
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,399
speak to you about your fantastic

864
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,760
interview that you both did recently

865
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:36,080
with george knapp and colin keller

866
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:38,480
now i mean we all know george knapp um

867
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:39,200
he's

868
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:40,320
one of the best investigative

869
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:43,200
journalists in the subject for decades

870
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:45,200
but colin you know he he only really

871
00:31:47,909 --> 00:31:46,480
came out again

872
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,919
and i say again because you know he's

873
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:49,919
been in the field for many years but

874
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,840
very much behind the scenes um but

875
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:53,200
obviously when the book skin walkers of

876
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:54,640
the pentagon came out towards the end of

877
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,559
last year he started doing these

878
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:58,240
interviews and

879
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,760
but i got asked a lot of times last year

880
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,200
so who would you like to interview and i

881
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,200
always said colin kelleher and then he

882
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,840
pops up and it's great but

883
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:07,279
did you get any major takeaways from

884
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:08,720
that interview

885
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:10,240
anything that really stood out that made

886
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,960
you kind of go oh and you know

887
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:14,640
sure um

888
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:16,240
you know just to go first i think uh the

889
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:19,360
major takeaway i got from it is just how

890
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:23,120
um underreported asap was it in the work

891
00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:24,880
that they actually did

892
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:28,240
um they made the point um to say you

893
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:30,640
know when the first new york times uh

894
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:33,120
article broke they connected a tip to

895
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:35,919
the the funding and all that and focused

896
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:38,080
on a small percentage of of what was

897
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:39,919
happening behind the scenes with with

898
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,720
ufos and investigating the paranormal

899
00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:44,640
um and

900
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,880
you know even with these uh dirts out

901
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:48,960
that we you know jay was talking about

902
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:51,440
bastardfield uh released like i went

903
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:53,679
over the biological effects uh one on

904
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:56,880
one of my uh episodes um i cannot

905
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:59,200
believe like that all that stuff is not

906
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,760
being talked about like on the news but

907
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:03,919
yet you know we get

908
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:06,720
you know new news segments about blacked

909
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:08,720
out versions of the preliminary

910
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:11,200
assessment you know about we can't see

911
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:14,080
the shapes you know but

912
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:15,440
we have

913
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:17,760
like there's so much material that would

914
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:20,000
make like headlines but but they don't

915
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:22,159
take it on it's like it and it's not

916
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,320
like some researcher just this is a

917
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:26,240
government funded

918
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:28,240
project that looked into these

919
00:33:30,990 --> 00:33:29,919
biological effects

920
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,000
there's

921
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:34,000
abductions specifically mentioned in

922
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:35,519
this document

923
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,440
a mufon document

924
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:39,840
that lists historical

925
00:33:46,389 --> 00:33:43,919
physical cases is in this document

926
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,399
that was made with government money

927
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:48,399
and

928
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:52,399
you know so to me it's it's just like um

929
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:54,640
holy cow is it was there a lot more

930
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,120
going on than we even knew about

931
00:34:02,230 --> 00:33:59,440
and you know uh things can get completed

932
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:02,240
but the fact is is that it happened and

933
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:03,120
um

934
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,880
you know what my big takeaway is just

935
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,440
how much time and effort colin has put

936
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:09,119
into this

937
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:11,839
how how smart of a person he is

938
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:13,599
how much more he knows that i'd like to

939
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:14,560
know

940
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,599
and

941
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,760
you know in george knapp

942
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:19,599
that i've wanted to talk to him ever

943
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,760
since i started this i i've been

944
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:23,440
emailing him and trying to get him for

945
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,960
months and

946
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:26,560
a couple times i thought i scared him

947
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:28,720
away but somehow i didn't

948
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:29,599
um

949
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:31,760
and finally the timing was right you

950
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:33,200
know um

951
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:34,960
and

952
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:37,760
such a thrill to talk to somebody like

953
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:39,359
that who makes

954
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:41,280
everything he does

955
00:34:45,190 --> 00:34:44,159
looks so incredibly easy

956
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:45,200
you know

957
00:34:48,710 --> 00:34:46,560
um

958
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:48,720
the truly uh look up to that guy's

959
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:50,240
professionalism

960
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:52,159
especially in this topic which is which

961
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:53,839
is not easy so

962
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:56,560
yeah those are a couple of things

963
00:35:04,230 --> 00:34:57,520
yeah

964
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,240
for me i agree with sean and

965
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:07,119
of course call column for people that

966
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:09,280
don't kind of recognize

967
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,720
of course he's a behind the scenes guy

968
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:13,040
but this guy

969
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:15,200
and there's this strange fine line

970
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:17,280
because he likes being a behind the

971
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:19,119
scenes guy and at the same time he's

972
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:20,640
co-written a couple of these books and

973
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:22,880
he he does clearly like getting credit

974
00:35:28,069 --> 00:35:25,920
for the awesome program right so

975
00:35:29,829 --> 00:35:28,079
and i think it's important to

976
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:29,839
get people to recognize that this is

977
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:32,240
essentially like the next generation's

978
00:35:35,589 --> 00:35:33,520
help put off

979
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:35,599
you know how put off is well in his 80s

980
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,680
and then you've got column in the next

981
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:39,920
generation and he's basically

982
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:43,280
doing the same kinds of explorations

983
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:46,640
that hal has been paid to do for decades

984
00:35:51,270 --> 00:35:48,960
you know in this wider

985
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:51,280
framework of follow the evidence where

986
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:52,320
it leads

987
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,240
and he's a complete total badass

988
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:58,720
you know and and

989
00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:00,160
just

990
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:02,320
being in that situation of looking at

991
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:04,079
george and looking at column you know

992
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:05,040
it's like

993
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:05,839
where

994
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:09,440
the the one guy has 24 news emmys right

995
00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:12,400
and the the other guys call him column

996
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:14,480
effing keller and

997
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:17,359
and i was saying to to steward yesterday

998
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:18,720
it's like

999
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:23,280
procedural shows where you're brought in

1000
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,680
to be interrogated you know and you're

1001
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,359
in you're like chained

1002
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:29,040
to the table or something like that and

1003
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,599
these two slick dudes and suits sit down

1004
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:33,920
in front of you to play good cop bad cop

1005
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,320
or whatever and then you're there and

1006
00:36:40,230 --> 00:36:38,160
you're supposed to interview them for

1007
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,240
some reason do you know what i mean like

1008
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:42,960
it was it was it's extraordinarily

1009
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:44,880
intimidating being in a situation like

1010
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:47,920
that i you know and but i i really

1011
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:49,839
enjoyed it you know i think george is a

1012
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,720
treasure i think column is absolutely

1013
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:54,720
fascinating and the work he does is

1014
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,480
absolutely fascinating

1015
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:57,920
and um

1016
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:58,800
you know

1017
00:37:03,990 --> 00:36:59,760
one

1018
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:04,000
takeaway i guess from there is just

1019
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,040
without

1020
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:07,200
going into

1021
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,280
column clearly wants to helm another

1022
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:11,520
project like awesome yeah i think that

1023
00:37:17,109 --> 00:37:14,400
that's one of the takeaways there and

1024
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:17,119
i think that if people really want to

1025
00:37:21,910 --> 00:37:19,680
kind of investigate and and look into

1026
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:21,920
the stuff more maybe they should look

1027
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:24,720
into you know the bigelow institute of

1028
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:27,200
consciousness studies or they look could

1029
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:29,359
look into bass a little bit more because

1030
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:31,040
the guy's doing really good work and

1031
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:33,760
it's not as if he's too he's too bright

1032
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,560
and inquisitive of a person to stop

1033
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:38,640
pursuing good leads let's put it that

1034
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:39,760
way

1035
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:41,280
yeah and obviously he did good work with

1036
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,359
nids as well back in the day

1037
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,880
you know

1038
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,480
i have tried to speak to speak to him

1039
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:48,560
and george and maybe it's

1040
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:50,160
maybe it's the same for me as what you

1041
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,599
you had sean where

1042
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,440
you get into conversations with them it

1043
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,440
doesn't lead to setting up a day and at

1044
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,880
that moment i'm in that point where i'm

1045
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:58,560
just waiting to hear back

1046
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:01,119
um no rush of course you know

1047
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:06,000
yeah it's just um persistence is key but

1048
00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:08,320
you know just every now and again oh hey

1049
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:09,040
just

1050
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:11,280
checking in any things open up be my

1051
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:12,800
honor you know

1052
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,880
um yeah because literally like

1053
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,240
i thought it was gonna happen like

1054
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:20,160
months ago and it didn't

1055
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:21,040
um

1056
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:21,920
and

1057
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:30,710
the one thing i know is he doesn't like

1058
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:32,400
talking about himself

1059
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:33,920
so

1060
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:35,200
now that's the thing you mentioned being

1061
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:36,720
persistent as well

1062
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:38,160
i'm not very good at being persistent

1063
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:40,160
with people because i feel like i'm just

1064
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:41,680
annoying them

1065
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:44,079
yeah well who cares

1066
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,920
no i don't want to come across that way

1067
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:47,760
you know i know what it's like when you

1068
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:49,520
get bombarded with things and i'm sure

1069
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:51,359
they get a lot of it so

1070
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,400
well you know a lot of people may not

1071
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,040
know this but i spent most of my time uh

1072
00:39:01,829 --> 00:38:59,440
in my professional life in sales you

1073
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:01,839
know my last job was pretty high ticket

1074
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:04,400
sales and i did a lot of self training

1075
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:05,599
for that

1076
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:08,880
um and one thing i learned is

1077
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:11,200
you have to be away you have to be

1078
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:14,880
willing to uh not take a deal a sale so

1079
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,560
to speak

1080
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:19,040
and with like a guest i say you have to

1081
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:20,880
be willing and know that you might not

1082
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,119
get the interview when you go and ask

1083
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:25,680
the for the interview you know and just

1084
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:27,440
realize that everybody's just a person

1085
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,440
and everyone wants to just have a human

1086
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:31,760
connection and just be honest with each

1087
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:32,720
other and

1088
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:34,400
you know as long as you do that

1089
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:37,520
everything will work out however that is

1090
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:40,000
yeah absolutely yeah yeah

1091
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:42,000
um

1092
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:43,839
here's a point that i really always find

1093
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:45,440
really interesting and and i like to get

1094
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:47,040
different em different points of view on

1095
00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:48,000
it is

1096
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:50,320
we put a lot or i say we people in

1097
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:52,079
general seem to put a lot of emphasis on

1098
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:54,640
videos and ufo videos

1099
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:57,760
for me personally i don't i prefer data

1100
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,359
and stuff like that you know i think

1101
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:03,119
in this day and age a video can only

1102
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:04,880
give you so much it can only tell you so

1103
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:07,040
much and it still would warrant a lot

1104
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,920
more

1105
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:09,839
data to back it up so what are you guys

1106
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:11,119
thoughts on this you know when people

1107
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:11,839
say

1108
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:14,800
if we see a a clear or compelling video

1109
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:17,200
that's it we've got disclosure well

1110
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,040
it's not so

1111
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:21,359
yeah i'd like to know your thoughts

1112
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:24,079
sure yeah i think you know a great video

1113
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:27,760
is a great video and at the same time

1114
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:30,079
um having

1115
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:31,359
had

1116
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:33,839
experiences myself you know sean has

1117
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,319
other people you know it's it's

1118
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:38,640
difficult to

1119
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:41,200
square away for people or

1120
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:44,079
you know the idea that that

1121
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:46,640
the video doesn't doesn't show you how

1122
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:48,640
weird these situations actually are to

1123
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:50,960
experience they don't show you the web

1124
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:53,040
of connections that happen there

1125
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:56,240
and so in a way when i think about

1126
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:58,000
kind of the

1127
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:00,720
simplistic

1128
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,280
kind of 2001

1129
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:05,520
idea of disclosure not the stanley

1130
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:07,040
kubrick movie which was a total mind

1131
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,079
screw but i mean kind of like the greer

1132
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:11,920
you know steven bassett era of

1133
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:14,560
disclosure where as if as if it was

1134
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:16,160
going to be some christmas present that

1135
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:18,560
people could just open on december 25th

1136
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:20,480
and be like oh my god we have disclosure

1137
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,839
look it's right here

1138
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:23,520
like it was going to be like a bicycle

1139
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:24,720
or something like that do you know what

1140
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:28,319
i mean and um i and

1141
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:31,599
when you see how this how strange things

1142
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:34,079
get and how much is going on seemingly

1143
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:36,000
you know then

1144
00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:39,040
it's going to be a developing

1145
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,400
complicated conversation for decades

1146
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:44,160
possibly centuries

1147
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:47,839
to adapt to the these other kind of

1148
00:41:52,150 --> 00:41:49,599
realities right

1149
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:52,160
and so when i see a video i think oh you

1150
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:55,440
know i do see how much mileage ralph and

1151
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:57,440
leslie and lou

1152
00:42:02,630 --> 00:41:59,920
and chris mellen got off of those

1153
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:02,640
original fleur videos and at the same

1154
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:03,920
time

1155
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:05,680
you know which is amazing but at the

1156
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:07,359
same time i think

1157
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,880
that there are so many competing

1158
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:11,040
interests that have kind of leveled up

1159
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:12,720
since then

1160
00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:14,079
that

1161
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,079
keeps talking about and other people

1162
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:20,400
keep talking about the confidential uap

1163
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:23,200
task force videos things like or videos

1164
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,640
things like that

1165
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:26,640
i don't know that

1166
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:27,920
you know there's still going to be

1167
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,119
people that are paid to debase things

1168
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:33,040
that are literally paid to debase things

1169
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,400
and then there are other people that do

1170
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:36,000
that work for free

1171
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:37,359
you know there are other people that

1172
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:41,040
seemingly have have organized themselves

1173
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:42,560
where they want to be kind of like

1174
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:45,599
unpaid agents of the mod or whoever the

1175
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,720
heck

1176
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:49,200
to to kind of sit around and

1177
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:50,480
and

1178
00:43:01,190 --> 00:42:58,880
edit an image these days so yeah yeah

1179
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:01,200
that's that's my take on videos i love

1180
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:03,680
seeing a cool video i love seeing a cat

1181
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:05,280
video you know what i mean a great video

1182
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:08,400
is a great video but um but it's it's

1183
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:09,920
gonna take more than that i'm sure of

1184
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:10,800
that

1185
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:14,400
sean yeah yeah uh i am

1186
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,960
more or less on on the same boat with

1187
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:18,560
you there i mean

1188
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:22,319
um the way i think of it is um

1189
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:23,760
you know think of it like the best

1190
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:25,520
clearest

1191
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:28,560
that that you know most people would exp

1192
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:30,160
want to

1193
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:32,480
see as far as being the clincher for

1194
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:33,760
them right

1195
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:35,040
and then

1196
00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:36,480
you know think of how

1197
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:38,480
people would react to that

1198
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:40,160
and when i think of that i think a lot

1199
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:42,000
of the reactions would be

1200
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:45,119
this is fake or cgi or

1201
00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:46,960
or whatever right and then the other

1202
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:48,720
thing i think of is

1203
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:50,560
uh whatever it is isn't going to look

1204
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:51,839
like anything

1205
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:54,960
that you are imagining right now you

1206
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,119
know so

1207
00:44:01,349 --> 00:43:59,520
um i think

1208
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:01,359
you know it could be

1209
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:03,200
what you see visually is going to be the

1210
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:05,440
least important uh aspect of the

1211
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:06,880
phenomenon

1212
00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:09,119
you know basically so if if you're

1213
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,599
banking on a video i i think um you're

1214
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,440
banking on being underwhelmed over and

1215
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:14,800
over again

1216
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,520
because the phenomenon it isn't about

1217
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:19,680
what you see you know

1218
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:22,640
um it's about uh the experience you have

1219
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:23,680
um

1220
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:25,680
you know during a interaction or an

1221
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,720
encounter

1222
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:28,480
and you know the other things that the

1223
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:32,079
phenomenon is capable of visually um is

1224
00:44:36,470 --> 00:44:33,040
is

1225
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:36,480
um you know really not important in the

1226
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:39,119
in the long run um but it's unfortunate

1227
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:41,599
because it's been propped up as uh you

1228
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:42,319
know

1229
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,720
one of the most important things that

1230
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:46,720
people should look for or look for you

1231
00:44:50,790 --> 00:44:48,400
know and i'd play this segment on my

1232
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,800
show called uh what the heck is that you

1233
00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:52,880
know where i go what the heck is that

1234
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:54,880
you know and then we play some uh some

1235
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:56,800
videos i find online

1236
00:44:59,829 --> 00:44:58,160
and um

1237
00:45:03,030 --> 00:44:59,839
you know it's interesting because

1238
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:03,040
everyone that actually has like a real

1239
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:04,880
saucer or something

1240
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:07,440
you know that zips through and it's like

1241
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:09,040
that that could be real and you would

1242
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:10,640
never even know

1243
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:12,160
you would never know

1244
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,000
because you wouldn't believe it

1245
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:16,560
you know but you wouldn't believe it

1246
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:17,520
you know

1247
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:19,920
uh and that's just

1248
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:22,000
how it works like the almost the more

1249
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:23,920
real something looks is you're just

1250
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:26,160
gonna think it's completely fake you

1251
00:45:31,349 --> 00:45:28,400
know along yeah along those lines i

1252
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,359
think that a com a compelling occupant

1253
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:33,040
video like

1254
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,160
the others aliens extra you know however

1255
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:38,240
you want to frame this stuff like a

1256
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:41,200
compelling video of grays or mantis or

1257
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:43,520
whoever else like that

1258
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:46,560
that could unlock a lot of

1259
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:49,040
weird doors in terms of like the public

1260
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:51,280
consciousness but like sean's saying

1261
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,920
like that that also

1262
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:55,599
it doesn't mean that people would

1263
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:56,800
believe it

1264
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:59,200
it it just looked like an op the entire

1265
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:00,560
time you know

1266
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,240
yeah and i mean i suppose in your line

1267
00:46:06,550 --> 00:46:04,079
jay when i mean you're an experienced

1268
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:06,560
yourself but and when somebody new you

1269
00:46:11,109 --> 00:46:09,200
speak to comes and tells you their

1270
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:11,119
their story um

1271
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:13,119
about maybe interacting with an entity

1272
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:19,109
i mean i'm not saying that people come

1273
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:20,880
up and talk to you and they're blatantly

1274
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:22,640
lying about things but how do you

1275
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:24,880
discern between

1276
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:26,640
you know someone who's telling the truth

1277
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:28,319
or someone you may be unsure of i mean

1278
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:31,359
that must be a really difficult process

1279
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:34,000
it can be challenging it can it can be

1280
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,760
very challenging and i try

1281
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:39,920
everybody that's kind of a principal at

1282
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:42,480
the experiencer group we

1283
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,880
try to remain as open-minded as possible

1284
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:46,560
and we also recognize that there are

1285
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:49,200
some people that are having

1286
00:46:54,710 --> 00:46:51,839
experiences that are

1287
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:54,720
there's a lot of overlap with with

1288
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:58,079
mental illness it's just absolutely true

1289
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:00,800
that's true and there are people that

1290
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:03,359
are having honest-to-god

1291
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:05,680
wild encounters with non-human

1292
00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:07,680
intelligence and or out-of-body

1293
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,160
experiences or near-death all there are

1294
00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:12,480
so many different kinds of situations

1295
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:14,800
and they could be having a mental health

1296
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,960
crisis along with that

1297
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,960
you know it's not necessarily a lot of

1298
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,559
people online they say oh it's one or

1299
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:22,079
the other but

1300
00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:24,000
if you know how much this can like break

1301
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:26,720
open people's brains to be dealing with

1302
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:28,400
the ontological shock of some of these

1303
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,760
situations

1304
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:32,400
it causes depression it causes anxiety

1305
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:33,440
people

1306
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:38,640
abuse issues because they they can't

1307
00:47:42,470 --> 00:47:40,640
face this stuff marriages break up there

1308
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:42,480
are so many issues that way

1309
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:43,280
and

1310
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:47,680
being able to like we were talking about

1311
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:49,680
before being able to meet people where

1312
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,640
they are is extraordinarily important

1313
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,280
and at the same time there are

1314
00:47:58,630 --> 00:47:57,200
very specific data points that you can

1315
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:58,640
look at and

1316
00:48:02,470 --> 00:48:00,640
the more people you talk to you know

1317
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:02,480
i've i've spoken with thousands of

1318
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:04,160
people at this point about this stuff

1319
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:04,880
and

1320
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:10,400
you you think to yourself oh yeah

1321
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,480
that resonates with this case and this

1322
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:14,319
and this and this other thing and then

1323
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:16,480
every once in a while you you get

1324
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:17,760
somebody that

1325
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:18,800
may

1326
00:48:23,349 --> 00:48:21,520
just completely be off the map

1327
00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:23,359
and that could be because

1328
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:25,520
they just had like their

1329
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:26,880
whatever their

1330
00:48:32,870 --> 00:48:30,079
specific thing is it just isn't

1331
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:32,880
that usual even within this wild realm

1332
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:34,800
where nothing is usual

1333
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:35,839
right

1334
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:38,960
and sometimes that person might be

1335
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:41,200
making something up right

1336
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:44,240
but it honestly within the group and

1337
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:45,920
from what i see it happens so

1338
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,240
infrequently because one of the cool

1339
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:50,160
things about having a group like that is

1340
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:52,960
that people that are fakes don't want to

1341
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,640
be around a bunch of authentic

1342
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:56,880
experiencers you know what i mean it

1343
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:59,680
seems to weed itself out in a way

1344
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:01,040
um

1345
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:02,400
i was just gonna say that like the

1346
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:04,400
people that fake it won't have the the

1347
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:06,640
same amount of conviction to work

1348
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:08,800
through you know what they experienced

1349
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:11,200
or you know are pretending to experience

1350
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:12,880
so it's only a matter of time until

1351
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:14,480
they're like they get out of there or

1352
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:15,359
whatever

1353
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:17,359
um is it going back a little bit on the

1354
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:19,760
on the video thing you know what uh

1355
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:23,280
videos are really good for is attention

1356
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,119
right so if you if you get a video that

1357
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:27,599
gets like a lot of attention like uh the

1358
00:49:30,950 --> 00:49:29,920
new york times that era those navy

1359
00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:30,960
videos

1360
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:34,079
um that brought a lot more people to the

1361
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:36,960
topic who are then like okay

1362
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,000
what is this and then went into

1363
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:42,160
you know researching or you know having

1364
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,240
podcasts or doing things that were

1365
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:47,440
productive and positive that helped um

1366
00:49:52,549 --> 00:49:50,720
put a community of tools on

1367
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:52,559
the topic to try to figure things out

1368
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:53,440
you know

1369
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:55,359
um because you're not gonna get that

1370
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:58,160
kind of interest without that i wouldn't

1371
00:50:03,190 --> 00:49:59,599
think you know

1372
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:03,200
so i mean i do think like the the videos

1373
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:06,319
um are are really great for that

1374
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:08,559
are really great for that um especially

1375
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:10,720
when it's an authentic like navy video

1376
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:12,400
uh and and it's paired with the

1377
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:14,880
testimony of of someone like david

1378
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:18,240
fravor like yeah so that alone obviously

1379
00:50:22,150 --> 00:50:19,440
as we could see we've all been through

1380
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:22,160
it it's not gonna be enough to convince

1381
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:24,240
the entire world um

1382
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:26,480
that it's time to you know change your

1383
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:28,240
life and focus on other things or

1384
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:29,200
whatever

1385
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:30,880
um but that's

1386
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:33,920
definitely uh enough to get a lot more

1387
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:36,480
people interested to put in the work to

1388
00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:39,200
figure it out for themselves

1389
00:50:42,069 --> 00:50:40,640
absolutely i suppose a lot of people do

1390
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:42,079
come into this when they see stories

1391
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:43,920
like the nimitz case when

1392
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:45,440
with the new york times for example but

1393
00:50:47,829 --> 00:50:46,160
then

1394
00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:47,839
i think also with

1395
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:49,280
with the experience the side of things

1396
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:50,400
people

1397
00:50:53,670 --> 00:50:52,240
so i mean for me personally it seems

1398
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:53,680
like more and more people are coming

1399
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:55,440
forward but have i really been paying

1400
00:51:00,069 --> 00:50:57,760
attention jay would you say that you're

1401
00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:00,079
getting more of an influx of people

1402
00:51:05,430 --> 00:51:02,640
you know as each year comes by

1403
00:51:06,829 --> 00:51:05,440
absolutely i mean the experiencer group

1404
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:06,839
itself

1405
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:10,400
has only been around for about 15 months

1406
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:14,400
now um and originally we um it was

1407
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,400
invite only and so we opened it up um to

1408
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:20,559
other people starting in may of last

1409
00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:21,520
year

1410
00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:23,440
right um but

1411
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,559
that said

1412
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:26,720
um we were doing private groups before

1413
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,800
in different configurations before that

1414
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:30,240
happens you know

1415
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:30,960
it

1416
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:32,319
that

1417
00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:36,559
from somewhere and it was a lot of

1418
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:38,960
confidential groups that happened during

1419
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:41,200
the beginning of the pandemic and around

1420
00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:42,800
then and even before

1421
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:43,599
but

1422
00:51:48,549 --> 00:51:46,319
yeah people are definitely coming out of

1423
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:48,559
the woodwork there's i think that

1424
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:51,520
one of the things is that you see

1425
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,720
a different level of you see different

1426
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,160
levels of people

1427
00:51:59,589 --> 00:51:58,160
being able to kind of walk into these

1428
00:52:02,230 --> 00:51:59,599
situations

1429
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:04,870
um without of course we have a privacy

1430
00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,599
policy at the experiencer group so i

1431
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,520
can't kind of name people unless they

1432
00:52:12,069 --> 00:52:11,040
out themselves as members and things

1433
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:12,079
like that yeah

1434
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:13,119
but

1435
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:15,520
there are people that are very high

1436
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,400
functioning people that have you know

1437
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:20,160
worked on things like

1438
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:21,680
you know these super computers that we

1439
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:24,240
hold in our pockets or or people that

1440
00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:26,800
are associated with enormous businesses

1441
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:27,599
and

1442
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,319
putting the dots together is is really

1443
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:34,880
crucial and important

1444
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:35,680
yeah

1445
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:36,960
and what advice would you give to

1446
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:38,160
somebody who's

1447
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:39,440
had an experience and they're a bit

1448
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:41,520
unsure a bit nervous about coming out i

1449
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:42,960
mean

1450
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:44,160
you know how do they get in touch with

1451
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:46,160
you guys is that something that you're

1452
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:47,359
you know you're

1453
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:53,829
um and in terms of in terms of people

1454
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:55,440
wanting to

1455
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:59,520
come out of the experience or closet as

1456
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:00,480
it were

1457
00:53:03,910 --> 00:53:02,400
um i think one of the most crucial

1458
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:03,920
components shawn and i we were talking

1459
00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,319
with mike clelland a couple weeks ago

1460
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:08,400
and mike wrote an amazing book called

1461
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:10,960
the messengers and he wrote another more

1462
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:13,200
recent book called hidden experience

1463
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:16,800
and brilliant brilliant guy um

1464
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,119
and he

1465
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:21,599
he actually is one of the crucial people

1466
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:25,280
that that that convinced me to to come

1467
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:29,200
out myself as an experiencer and it was

1468
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:31,119
through support groups it was through

1469
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:32,960
support groups he was

1470
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:35,200
and he said

1471
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,160
to me

1472
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:38,079
you know one door closes and another

1473
00:53:43,109 --> 00:53:40,880
door opens he said i have i

1474
00:53:45,990 --> 00:53:43,119
i've known whitley for years whitley

1475
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:46,000
back in those days that was hard for him

1476
00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:47,920
mike clone himself

1477
00:53:51,430 --> 00:53:49,359
came out of the experience closet about

1478
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:51,440
15 years ago and

1479
00:53:54,950 --> 00:53:53,200
and he said it was a completely

1480
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:54,960
different picture for him than it was

1481
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,920
for whitley now there are there are

1482
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:59,520
absolutely going to be people that it's

1483
00:54:02,790 --> 00:54:01,920
just not going to be their past either

1484
00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:02,800
because

1485
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:07,040
partner that they're with or the kids or

1486
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:09,680
whatever other considerations are there

1487
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:12,319
but one thing that i would say is that

1488
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:14,400
one of the most amazing things that can

1489
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:17,680
happen is being able to have kind of a

1490
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:19,520
an interpersonal

1491
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:22,079
a personal disclosure

1492
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,640
between you and a loved one whether it's

1493
00:54:27,430 --> 00:54:25,839
a parent

1494
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:27,440
or your partner

1495
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:30,000
or a close friend or something like that

1496
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:32,079
finding somebody looking amongst your

1497
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:34,400
group around you and thinking like who

1498
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:36,559
can actually hold space for this who can

1499
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:39,680
who can take this kind of a conversation

1500
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:43,119
and and who do i know that loves me

1501
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:44,960
enough to be able to

1502
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:48,319
to kind of be able to hold this and and

1503
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:50,799
have a productive conversation about it

1504
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:54,000
i would say my advice would would be to

1505
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:56,400
potentially start in a place like that

1506
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:58,960
and if you don't even feel like you have

1507
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:00,640
something like that around

1508
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:02,880
around you to those out there

1509
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:05,359
that's why we created the experiencer

1510
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:07,280
group and that's why the and you know

1511
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,520
there are other groups out there as well

1512
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:11,760
but it's um it's important to look

1513
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:14,240
around and find that kind of

1514
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:17,119
that kind of solid base because

1515
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:19,599
you know it it's lonely it can be really

1516
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:21,920
lonely to navigate these these multiple

1517
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:23,280
realities

1518
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:25,359
you know you're dealing with kind of two

1519
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:26,960
different worlds you're dealing with the

1520
00:55:31,030 --> 00:55:29,040
world that you deal with when you go to

1521
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:31,040
your job or the grocery store

1522
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,280
or you're hanging out at home and then

1523
00:55:36,870 --> 00:55:35,520
there's the other world that can open up

1524
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:36,880
for people at three in the morning or

1525
00:55:39,910 --> 00:55:38,880
whatever you know

1526
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,920
and

1527
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:42,079
that can be

1528
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:43,760
it that's

1529
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:45,040
it's it's

1530
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:47,040
literally alienating you know it's a

1531
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:49,599
challenge um so yeah interpersonal

1532
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:51,760
disclosure find somebody that that you

1533
00:55:56,710 --> 00:55:53,280
have a loving relationship with that

1534
00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:56,720
respects you and think about just think

1535
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:58,240
to yourself about whether they can hold

1536
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:00,799
space for that conversation or not

1537
00:56:06,870 --> 00:56:04,319
uh i would just add to that uh how

1538
00:56:09,910 --> 00:56:06,880
incredibly accurate

1539
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:09,920
uh that is just as he's talking um

1540
00:56:14,549 --> 00:56:13,119
just about uh how isolating it could be

1541
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:14,559
um

1542
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:16,240
you know especially when you don't

1543
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:17,920
really know anyone you don't have any

1544
00:56:21,349 --> 00:56:18,880
friends

1545
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:21,359
or or whatever that have had that kind

1546
00:56:26,309 --> 00:56:24,480
of experience and maybe even you know

1547
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:26,319
typically would make fun of people that

1548
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,720
would talk about that kind of stuff what

1549
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:30,640
do you do you know and

1550
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:32,319
um all i can talk about is my own

1551
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:33,760
experience and

1552
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:34,720
um

1553
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:36,079
when i went to

1554
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:37,200
um

1555
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:42,799
experience and i saw people doing shows

1556
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:45,760
and stuff and um i basically came out on

1557
00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:49,520
my show you know um and i had maybe

1558
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:51,920
you know i'd get 50 views on a video or

1559
00:56:57,589 --> 00:56:54,319
whatever you know over the course of a

1560
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:57,599
few weeks not very many people

1561
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:01,040
but uh that that's how i did it and

1562
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:03,200
what made me feel okay with with doing

1563
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:05,760
that or at least trying it is

1564
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:08,640
um the community that was around um

1565
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:10,720
there was enough people that

1566
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:15,520
made it feel okay you know um so

1567
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:16,960
with that being said i think it's

1568
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:19,200
important for um

1569
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:20,319
us to

1570
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:23,119
watch our behavior on things like social

1571
00:57:26,309 --> 00:57:24,319
media

1572
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:26,319
because there may be someone like myself

1573
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:27,680
or somebody else

1574
00:57:31,910 --> 00:57:29,440
looking in from the outside that just

1575
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,920
had some sort of experience and what are

1576
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:33,839
they going to see you know are they

1577
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:35,440
going to see

1578
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:37,280
people just slinging crap at each other

1579
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:39,200
are they going to see genuine honest

1580
00:57:43,109 --> 00:57:40,880
people that are trying to figure

1581
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:43,119
something out and take it seriously so

1582
00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:45,119
it's a safe place for you to enter then

1583
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:47,040
they can then find somebody like jay in

1584
00:57:52,549 --> 00:57:49,920
the experience or group or just at least

1585
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:52,559
take a baby step in following certain

1586
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:54,480
people and and their opinions on

1587
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:55,599
different things

1588
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:58,079
um and in the end

1589
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:00,640
it's gonna be up to you and coming out

1590
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,040
like jay said is is not gonna be the

1591
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:04,960
right decision for everybody

1592
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,480
um but

1593
00:58:09,349 --> 00:58:08,400
but most of all you shouldn't feel

1594
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:09,359
guilty

1595
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:11,599
uh if you don't you know

1596
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:13,839
um it shouldn't be like i have to or i'm

1597
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:15,680
not being um

1598
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:20,789
i don't know it's it's not easy but you

1599
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:22,799
just have to make sure it's it's right

1600
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:25,839
for yourself you know um and if anything

1601
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:26,720
i would

1602
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:28,480
definitely uh

1603
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:30,880
steer people the the people

1604
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:33,119
people to groups like the experiencer

1605
00:58:35,829 --> 00:58:34,079
group

1606
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:35,839
um

1607
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:43,119
and all that and if anybody's watching

1608
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:44,640
who's thinking about it

1609
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:47,280
it's most important to know that you are

1610
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:48,240
not

1611
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:49,200
alone

1612
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:54,880
and there are so many other people

1613
00:58:57,750 --> 00:58:56,720
who have had experiences

1614
00:59:00,230 --> 00:58:57,760
um

1615
00:59:02,549 --> 00:59:00,240
that feel the same way you do that feel

1616
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:02,559
as confused as you do that feel as

1617
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:04,480
isolated as you do

1618
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:05,520
um

1619
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:06,319
so

1620
00:59:09,829 --> 00:59:08,559
just find them because that'll make you

1621
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:09,839
feel better

1622
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:12,319
absolutely 100 and i agree with you

1623
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,760
about the online

1624
00:59:17,030 --> 00:59:15,760
aspect in terms of how you treat other

1625
00:59:19,030 --> 00:59:17,040
people because

1626
00:59:22,150 --> 00:59:19,040
you know one of the things that and this

1627
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,160
is a very sensitive topic but

1628
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:24,240
the amount of people that i've talked to

1629
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:26,559
that have had

1630
00:59:30,789 --> 00:59:28,720
suicidal ideation

1631
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:30,799
or because of

1632
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:33,760
just feeling like they they don't belong

1633
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:35,440
that they don't that

1634
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:38,559
that there's nobody that can understand

1635
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:40,000
the situations that they've had like

1636
00:59:44,390 --> 00:59:42,240
this you know that the depression the

1637
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:44,400
depression that can happen from

1638
00:59:50,309 --> 00:59:47,680
these forms of ontological shock is is

1639
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:50,319
it's really difficult to overstate

1640
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:51,839
and so

1641
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:54,480
it can be a pretty childish format

1642
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:56,480
what we're dealing with online and of

1643
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:58,319
course a lot of times we're talking on

1644
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:00,559
twitter which limits how many characters

1645
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,200
you have and and it really kind of

1646
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:04,799
preferences

1647
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:07,040
quick hot takes you know that's kind of

1648
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:09,520
what the algorithm works with right

1649
01:00:13,349 --> 01:00:11,440
um but

1650
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:13,359
you know it's really important to

1651
01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:14,640
realize

1652
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:15,680
how

1653
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:19,680
and

1654
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:24,160
realizing that we're in this together

1655
01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:26,160
and we're all just trying to figure out

1656
01:00:30,150 --> 01:00:29,200
these great huge mysteries

1657
01:00:31,109 --> 01:00:30,160
you know

1658
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:31,119
trying

1659
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:32,960
realizing that we're in that together is

1660
01:00:38,069 --> 01:00:35,200
incredibly important and trying to bring

1661
01:00:39,990 --> 01:00:38,079
love into the equation is is

1662
01:00:42,309 --> 01:00:40,000
absolutely crucial

1663
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:42,319
yeah i really appreciate you talking on

1664
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:43,839
that sort of sensitive side of the

1665
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:45,599
subject as well because i think it

1666
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:47,760
really is helpful if people hear this

1667
01:00:50,870 --> 01:00:49,359
there you go you know and and i have got

1668
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,880
all the links in the description below

1669
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:53,040
but we do go out on the anomalous

1670
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:55,200
podcast network as well so if could you

1671
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:57,200
just give us like the the web address of

1672
01:01:01,109 --> 01:00:59,359
where people can can go to if they they

1673
01:01:03,750 --> 01:01:01,119
want to

1674
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:03,760
sure um for me uh the experiencer

1675
01:01:09,430 --> 01:01:07,680
group.com is a great place to go um they

1676
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,440
people can also find the work that we're

1677
01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:11,359
doing on twitter

1678
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:12,400
at

1679
01:01:25,430 --> 01:01:22,950
my website is witness citizen

1680
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:25,440
dot com and everything i have is witness

1681
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:27,040
citizen so if you need to find me you

1682
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:28,720
can do that

1683
01:01:34,549 --> 01:01:32,240
you can always email me s-r-a-a-s-e-h

1684
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:34,559
witness citizen dot com

1685
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:36,640
um

1686
01:01:42,630 --> 01:01:41,200
just talk about your experience with

1687
01:01:44,789 --> 01:01:42,640
i'll listen to you

1688
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:44,799
you know sometimes that's all it takes

1689
01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:46,480
and

1690
01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:48,079
know that uh

1691
01:01:55,270 --> 01:01:52,160
i'm just trying to be uh as honest and

1692
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:55,280
driven with integrity as possible

1693
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:56,160
um

1694
01:02:00,150 --> 01:01:57,680
so

1695
01:02:01,990 --> 01:02:00,160
i'm trying to be that light

1696
01:02:04,069 --> 01:02:02,000
as best as i can

1697
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:04,079
yeah absolutely and i appreciate you

1698
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:05,760
both so much i really do i'm just gonna

1699
01:02:08,789 --> 01:02:07,039
give a quick shout out to christian

1700
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:08,799
thompson for the super sticker thank you

1701
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:11,039
so much for the support man here um and

1702
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:12,240
thank you to everyone else that's been

1703
01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:13,839
here on in the live chat tonight on

1704
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:16,400
youtube um you know there's been no no

1705
01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:17,839
trouble in the chat and that's always

1706
01:02:21,750 --> 01:02:19,760
good to see so i really do appreciate

1707
01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:21,760
everybody being here and and everybody

1708
01:02:26,470 --> 01:02:23,680
that that listens or watches after the

1709
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:26,480
fact uh all your support is just

1710
01:02:31,029 --> 01:02:28,799
greatly greatly appreciated so

1711
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:31,039
with that gentleman oh can i can i end

1712
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:32,880
on a joke

1713
01:02:35,589 --> 01:02:34,559
yeah i go online yeah all right all

1714
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:35,599
right

1715
01:02:38,549 --> 01:02:37,039
knock knock

1716
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:38,559
who's that he's there

1717
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:40,400
no one

1718
01:02:48,309 --> 01:02:45,109
oh man

1719
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:48,319
what a guy he's on foot

1720
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:50,400
the breakfast club returns

1721
01:02:55,589 --> 01:02:51,200
yeah

1722
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:55,599
listen jay thank you so much brother as

1723
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:57,760
always it's a it's a great time and love

1724
01:03:02,390 --> 01:02:59,680
speaking to you man and thank you so

1725
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:02,400
much me too as well i love your work and

1726
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:04,559
and i i really appreciate getting to

1727
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:06,319
know you you're a good friend

1728
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:07,760
thank you so much man enjoy the rest of

1729
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:10,319
your day you too talk to you later

1730
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:12,000
bye-bye

1731
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:13,680
well that was a fantastic show i love

1732
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:15,280
those conversations thank you to

1733
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:18,000
everybody as always um i'm going to be

1734
01:03:21,750 --> 01:03:20,319
back in a couple of days time with

1735
01:03:23,349 --> 01:03:21,760
multiple members of the anomalous

1736
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:23,359
podcast network

1737
01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:24,319
to

1738
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:27,440
just have a great conversation and yeah

1739
01:03:31,829 --> 01:03:29,520
then i am going away for a few days to

1740
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:31,839
scotland to film a documentary on

1741
01:03:37,510 --> 01:03:33,680
burlesque in house

1742
01:03:39,589 --> 01:03:37,520
and then the week after the 13th 10 days

1743
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:39,599
from now i've got mr rick doty joining

1744
01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:40,559
me

1745
01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:41,440
um

1746
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:44,480
yeah so lots coming up guys but that's

1747
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:46,240
the end of this one and i will see you